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something to Chew on. (Read 719 times)
hewhorocks
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something to Chew on.
May 28th, 2010 at 12:40am
 
So for the last couple of days Ive been reading various opinions on world design and adventure design and relating those opinions to the TPK from last weekend.

I had (hopefully) built up the nest as a dangerous place but figured it would be at least do-able/ dramatic for the full party. Then we had 4 instead of 5 and so I had a choice scale down what I had prepared or let it stand. I took it down a notch figuring it would still be a reasonable challenge and maybe no one would notice it wasnt “all that deadly . “  When we went down to 3 from 4 I had the same options but took a different course. I suppose I could have scaled it down further, I mean that would have been good sportsmanship but I thought well we had built it up as a dangerous place and so if they get the job done with three then with 5 they would have mowed it down.  I figured a test of the defenses, encounter the queen, and get the hell out. There would be the tantalizing treasure you know is there but cant quite reach. “Maybe with a full party we could get back one day...” Instead the treasure was like a triggered  mouse trap snapping down on  and breaking the spine of our mouse of a campaign.

The challenge was deliberate though the outcome wasn't. I'm not “out to get you” rather I'm trying to play the character of the setting we've created together. Maybe I DM because I cant stand losing a character and as DM I dont get attached. The setting just keeps going. Still to those of you who have lost a character (or  two) I dont want you to get discouraged.

In general the vast majority of encounters will constitute an appropriate challenge (within +/-3 levels of the group.)  However sometimes things will be there just because its supposed to be. “Yes there are dragons in that cavern.” The dragons wont always going to be a young adults just because thats  level appropriate. The setting exists outside of your characters and is a dangerous place. Take a cue from some of the villains and remember to run away once in a while. I know it isnt very heroic but heck it allows you to have an A TEAM style cut scene to prepare for the rematch.

As far as moving forward all I can say is I will try to use your character's back-stories to create interesting and dynamic encounters and plot-lines. Some  of these may be just a tad too dangerous and will require some good planning, some skill and just a little bit of luck to overcome. I hope you wouldn't want it any other way.

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elwyn
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Re: something to Chew on.
Reply #1 - May 28th, 2010 at 3:00am
 
The last time I served as a DM, I managed to totally kill off a party, in a game that had been going rather well until that point.

In the encounter when that happened, all the players just kind of waltzed into battle assuming that they would never meet an enemy that would be too tough for them to assault head-on, when in fact I had created an enemy that they were going to need to be a whole lot more strategic in order to defeat.  Afterwards, I was a bit dumbfounded that they had all made what seemed to me to be a terribly foolish assumption about the odds they faced.

But in this game, now that I'm a player rather than a DM, there have definitely been a few times when I've thought, "Leigh obviously wants us to take on this particular foe, so I guess I'll assume we're capable of beating it."  I try to play my role in a realistic way, but it's hard to avoid having some amount of metagame-thoughts about whether the DM seems to be implying that a particular challenge is or isn't beatable.

Anyway, I guess my overall point is, it's sometimes good to explicitly clarify expectations between players and DM about things like this.  Even if it's in the wake of several deaths. Wink  So thanks for throwing the tough challenges at us, Leigh (I know, easy for me to say that when my character hasn't been killed...).

And I'm eager to see who Luke's new comrades are going to be!
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Cowboy
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Re: something to Chew on.
Reply #2 - May 28th, 2010 at 3:24am
 
I agree. The real chance of death is a needed thing because otherwise you start to play unlike your character. In fact, it's stressful because of all the time and thought into the characters, but I enjoyed when brent was nearly gone. Having been knocked out twice in one encounter makes me play more stratigic rather than rushing in head long.

Plus I have some cool backup character concepts. heh
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hewhorocks
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Re: something to Chew on.
Reply #3 - May 28th, 2010 at 3:52am
 
Heh first two replies from the only survivors!
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Re: something to Chew on.
Reply #4 - May 28th, 2010 at 5:54am
 
I have to say I agree with them.  I made some pretty poor choices before and during the fight, and it was mostly because I assumed that Leigh expected us to fight the queen, so therefore it must be a doable fight.  I feel particularly bad because I feel like everyone followed me to some degree, ignoring signs that seem pretty obvious now that we should have run.  Lessons learned.  From now on tactical retreats will be added to my reprotoire of combat options.
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moyphotos
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Re: something to Chew on.
Reply #5 - May 28th, 2010 at 6:56pm
 
At first, I was disappointed that yet another character had died and this one in a full fighting retreat under extreme combat conditions.  I was careful about many things in this fight but circumstances of the adults and several bad rolls in a row, caused quite a backlash in the overall events.  I mean what, five or six modified 31s, then four or so rolls under 5 meaning no more than an 18 AC hit...not much you can do.  One of those critical, or important miss was my encounter power which would have added +3 to everyone's damage rolls.  Would have helped!

I was hoping that Nadarresh could one day come back, just so he could learn from his mistakes.  I learned with Aaron but had a bad run this time.  A cleric...next time a cleric!
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Re: something to Chew on.
Reply #6 - May 28th, 2010 at 9:29pm
 
Also @hewhorocks... I was thinking several things about reducing the challenge and was glad that you did not do it again.  I thought maybe, being enraged, the Kuthriks might move to us directly in a chase instead of launching projectiles and possibly hitting an egg.  The queen attacking the badger was great!  The worker Kuthrik getting scared and dropping the egg was good too...if only the acid stopped when I fell in the water...I would have lived!  hahaha
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