Since I started this topic of conversation at the end of our session, let me first say that I'm not trying to encourage Leigh to kill our characters.  I'd rather have Luke stay alive and find his redemption, instead of getting eaten by a big lizard.  But the ever-present possibility of character death is part of what makes this game fun, and the odds do seem to be strongly against our surviving at this point.  Therefore, I've been giving some thought to a new character to have ready in case Luke dies.

Based on what people were saying as we were all leaving, I've been thinking about ways to fulfill the striker role.  Here's the concept I have in mind at the moment.  Leigh, I'd appreciate if you'd let me know whether this idea is OK with you before I go to the work of actually making the character in detail.

The guy I have in mind is a member of the Path -- the monastic order in the service of Heironeous that we encountered a while back around Brix.  He is a human who comes from an aristocratic background in Shattered Bridge.  Class-wise, he's an Avenger (not a Monk), but flavor-wise he's a monk.  Personality-wise, he's more unscrupulous and cynical than Luke.  Probably moderately charismatic, and trained in Diplomacy (but his highest stats will need to be Dex and Wis).  He fights with a longspear.  (I partly have in mind the character played by Donnie Yen in the movie Hero, who gets killed by Jet Li's character in the first fight scene.)

Story-wise, this guy is on a mission to find Luke, who is, after all, a fugitive and a murderer.  He suspects Luke of having some connection to the Dracolich -- and that's his main motivation in looking for Luke, considering what the Dracolich has done to Shattered Bridge.  He would rather capture Luke alive and find out what he might know, but killing him would be an acceptable option.  He knew Luke a little bit, back in Shattered Bridge, but the two of them  weren't close.  He's prejudiced against half-orcs, which is a pretty common sentiment.

So this guy heard that Luke had appeared in Brix, and started getting on his trail.  Where he is now is wherever Leigh finds it convenient for him to be.  Maybe he's tracking the PCs through the jungle, or maybe he's still way back in Holderness or somewhere else along the road.

Leigh, if Luke survives, then feel free to use this concept as a NPC, of course!

I have something interesting to point out. We all need to make two characters. One to fufill a (different than our present characters) role if multiple members of the group die, and one which fufills the same role as our character does presently in case only one of us dies and that person has to play a new character which fills the same role that we have been filling. For instance, if Ladron dies and no one else does, I should have another rogue, a ranger, or a warlock prepared to step in. And, as Tom has so deftly done, we need to work thier histories to closely tie in to the present storyline, so that we don't lose the narrative thread, causing Leigh ever more headaches. I would also like to reiterate to Leigh, it's not your fault, we had a shitty rolling day, particularly me and Tom, and we don't look foward to character death, we're just being boy scouts about this, always prepared.

Interesting point, Dave.  But consider also that we are a somewhat unbalanced party now -- two leaders, no controller.  So, hypothetically, if Ladron dies and everyone else lives, should you make a striker or a controller to replace him?  Or if Luke's the only one to die, do I make a defender or a controller?  (Maybe the latter, since the two dwarves do pretty well with defender-ish stuff.)

But let's take this further -- why limit the hypothetical possibilities to (1) all die or (2) only my character dies?  What if, say, Luke and Thir die but Brenna and Ladron live?  There are too many possible combinations to anticipate, and I'd have trouble finding the time and mental energy to create a sufficient number of characters to anticipate all contingencies and put real thought into each of them.

It seems to me that the most likely scenarios, by far, are that either (1) we all die or (2) some unexpected thing comes along and saves us and we all live.  I'm not sure I'm enough of a Boy Scout to create characters for all other possibilities as well.

I very much agree that today's turn of events is not Leigh's fault.  It seemed like an interesting and balanced encounter, but there was some catastrophic dice rolling going on.

A further thought about my character concept: Grr, argh.  It turns out that an Avenger with a reach weapon is a really bad idea because the Avenger's most crucial power, the Oath of Enmity, requires the character to be adjacent to the target.

So I'm trying to decide whether to keep the Avenger class and use a different weapon, or switch to a different class (while keeping the monkish flavor).  Leigh, do you allow the Monk class to exist in this game?

I know I'm not part of your group, but I do have a comment about the whole Avenger thing.  I was playing in a group where one of the players had a female Tiefling Avenger, and let me say, this Avenger tanked harder than the Battlerage Vigor Fighter in the group.  She had the highest AC in the group, second in HP, and was overall a bad ass.  And she wielded a spear.  You wouldn't have to go to that extreme, but you could make a build similar to that, where the character could fill a secondary role pretty closely.  It takes a little more time and thought into making it, but having done it myself, it can be very fun and rewarding at the end of the day.

Well I believe the campaign guide lists Belevich as a monastery in the far west. It has certainly some influence from the desert princes cultures beyond the Kron Mountains. So monks are a go.

note that future 1/2orcs can use stats but will have the story function of Kron plainsmen. (Dark vision can be "touched by the night spirits...etc)

As an aside the encounter builder tool sometimes  is not as helpful as one would hope. The xp budget for this encounter was set as at moderate, given your ability to work the terrain and the level up, and the fact that you were fresh, I was surprised at the outcome. The status effects are clearly reducing the margin of error in this encounter.

Perhaps the time crunch is playing a role as well. I think my description was poor of the aura. I cant imagine anyone ending their turn adjacent to Cimil by choice. Also not having one of the "leaders" call out a strategy for the group seemed to stifle any coordination between the group's assets. 

The fact that a Kel'sin (Giant Lizard) has been summoned and that Cimil isnt bloodied leave the possibility that the storyline here may come to a close. What path any surviving characters take may or may not lead to a confrontation in Shattered Bridge. (I doubt Mr. Took would really want to travel past his treasure hoard to face certain doom in the maw of an undead dragon but who knows the motivations of the Hero the skinks call "SHA-SOON?"

Well, for me it was mostly being stunned for seven turns that prevented any kind of useful coordination of the group's assets.  It's hard to overstate how differently that combat would have gone if I'd been able to start hitting people sooner.

I definitely blame the dice rather than the encounter builder tool.  This seemed like a fine encounter to me.  There's no point trying to design encounters in which the PCs won't get killed no matter how badly their dice roll.

Leigh said: "What path any surviving characters take may or may not lead to a confrontation in Shattered Bridge." In response, I'll say this about my concept for my next character: He is not under orders from anyone.  He's just chosen to take on a personal mission of tracking down Luke because he thinks it's the best way for him to tackle the Dracolich situation.  Thus, there's some flexibility about him -- he can pick up right where Luke leaves off and continue the same quest, or he can be persuaded to go and do some other thing instead if he is given an in-character reason for doing so.

I haven't yet figured out if he's an Avenger or a Monk.  Almost certainly he is one or the other.

My point is that while Shattered Bridge is something going on there are lots of other areas to explore, villains to confront, conflicts to get embroiled in. This thread has been building for about 6 months real time now but wasnt the focus of the group until the first great PC extinction..

I'd say that the odds are medium in favor of any character death.  Thir's strategy might favor retreating towards the cliff and using bull rush tactics.  He isn't afraid of any (literally) stinking lizards.

Ok, character concept, no idea yet...

Combat from yesterday, well, i didn't get that there was an Aura at all, I could swear it was their weapons, which made me think that the dwarves were safe, although as a healer i should have used my skills to determine what the effect(s) truly were, it would have helped.  Also not paying attention to how far away that i was from him and the power that was affecting me and not a swarm...I just thought it was something that I needed to affect with a specific power, fire, acid, physical or something to disperse them.

We should have let Luke handle the big guys and we take out the drummers...I was too busy trying to be effective that I did not think about strategy until 4th round and then it was too late....

OK, so I've pretty much got my if-necessary-replacement for Luke figured out.  All of what follows is, of course, subject to Leigh's approval.

His name is Sir Marhault Greenleaf.  He's an Avenger. 

He comes from a monastery, about a day's travel southeast of Shattered Bridge, on a cliff overlooking the South Kelix River.  The monks of that place call themselves the Order of Ancient Eagles.  They're a small subgroup of the Path.  The Order has produced some of the greatest warriors and generals ever to serve Heironeous, but that's mostly ancient history.  In more recent times, the Order of Ancient Eagles has welcomed quite a few wealthy members into its ranks and renovated the monastery to a high level of taste and elegance.  Several of the Order's members have lately found their way into influential political positions in Shattered Bridge, Holderness, Hildebrand, and other places.  Some would say the Order has become decadent and worldly and has lost its old piety and valor.

Sir Marhault seems fairly typical of this newer generation of monks: a young nobleman who appreciates the finer things in life.  He looks small and delicate, with long hair and a mustache (picture a younger Inigo Montoya) and expensive but not gaudy clothes.

The oddest thing about Sir Marhault is that he carries a heavy flail that looks like it might weigh more than he does.  When he fights with it, he's constantly in motion, whirling the flail around him in a way that looks almost absurdly flashy and out-of-control -- yet somehow it works.  His opponents find him terribly hard to hit.  He is  uncannily good at moving through the battlefield; knows a trick or two about using the flail to dictate his adversaries' movements; and has also learned a few attacks that channel light and fire from Heironeous.

He is generally pleasant and well-spoken (12 Charisma, trained in Diplomacy).  He is usually confident and optimistic; he seems to take almost everything somewhat lightly.  He is light on his feet (17 Dex, trained in Stealth and Acrobatics) and has keen senses (19 Wis, trained in Perception).  His first instinct is to try to talk (or possibly sneak) his way out of a predicament; to him, it's uncivilized to resort to violence unless you're quite sure it's necessary.

His main goal in life is to advance the power of Heironeous in the Near Realms, especially within human civilization.  To that end, he wants to (1) perform impressive feats of valor and heroism in Heironeous's name, and (2) build alliances with the followers of other deities (and worshippers of spirits).  Although Sir Marhault is loyal to Heironeous, his own alignment is Unaligned.  When he does good things for others, he sees himself as doing them for the greater glory of Heironeous, for which he fully expects to be rewarded in this life and the afterlife.  Thus, he is willing to lie, cheat,  steal, and break his word, as necessity and prudence may dictate.

I'll fill in more details about Sir Marhault's background if he actually does become my new character -- but that should be enough for now.

Leigh, I have one question.  Is there a rule somewhere about what kinds of magical items a character gets to have when he starts at an advanced level?  All the other replacement PCs that have come into this game seem to have started off with various magical stuff. 

Sorry didnt see this last post.

Yes new characters will start with an even level item an item 1 level lower than the level and an item one level higher. Certain "Fantastic" items which clash with the setting may be disallowed.

That said if the party is scattered to the winds it may be better to consider taking up a new overall arc rather than try to piece togther something that fits in to the current "quest." Given the information on the setting thus far folks may be more comfortable developing other threads or rumors.

Well if, and that's is only IF...we don't live, then can we

a) continue in the same areas, with the rumors events still as they are...some are too good to pass on and just give up on...I mean hearing of a couple of dwarves, halfling and half-orc getting arrested, working for thw city, a dracolich, etc...how we get there story wise will be interesting but I am sure we can all come up with ways in which to visit this area for the adventure, treasure or something...

b) stay at this level instead of starting out at 1st level...so much has happened, this would be my, (gulp) 4th character, so I would not want to begin anew at first level...

c) Although I am not going the family/friend route some tie might be interesting, such as a tribe of adventurers, so that some of the feats might be taken/used.  I mean maybe a mercenary company, guards for hire must be out there, bounty hunters.  Good, evil or just looking for some cash until you can book passage on the next caravan to travel to hildebrand...

Just some thoughts...

I have established finally a barbarian, human, raised on the sea of grass, in a small tribe of about 75.  Father was a shaman (druid) of another tribe who married my mother and the two tribes joined together as one, greatly increasing their size and survivability chances.

Worships the spirits but speaks well enough of Kord but thinks Kord is just the spirits joining together as one and that they are the true power.  He believes from his experiences that although a great and powerful man like his father rose to be influential, his parents parents and other family and friends all helped to shape him into the figure head he is today as second in command outside of the tribe elders.

More to come...but I think we are going to live anyway...

moyphotos wrote on Oct 29^th, 2010 at 10:34pm:

More to come...but I think we are going to live anyway...

If thats not a jinx...

I'll make some fallback characters. 

One will be Aerandis's cousin, an elf who had self-imposed his own exile with the Kron Plainsmen at a young age.  Facially disfigured, he only found acceptance with the shaman mystic of the tribe who recognized his innate primal magic abilities.  After reaching maturity, he decided to search for Aerandis and either reconcile with him or slay him (too late though).

The second will be a gnome druid sent by Nerisella.  Sensing that Aerandis connection to the primal spirits had been weakened or cut, she sent out one of her allies in the Fey Fields to confirm his passing (as Aerandis was in a way her ward).

So, the shaman is more of a leader, and the druid is more of a controller.  We'll see what happens.

We all in for tomorrow at 11?

I'll be there.

Yes, I'll be there as well.

I should be able to be there, although sleep will be short for me. I do have a character mostly prepared if Ladron should bite it.  The background is sketchy and based on some background stories I wrote for Ladron.  If I have time at work tonight, I might write another character for flexibility's sake if we should undergo TPK.

Alain is a warlord. He enlisted as a footsoldier at a young age with a local baron's men to escape the tedium of life on the farm. He quickly showed the ability to lead men and within a couple of years was commanding his own detachment. When the baron was deposed through familial intrigue, he decided to set out on his own as an adventurer and mercenary. He helped put together a small band, which included Ladron Took. Together they participated in several campaigns outside of the Kron Plains against orc raiders. Alain was one of the party who was rescued by Ladron from jail the night that Ladron took revenge on the local lord by stealing the lord's son's clothing and putting them on the local scarecrows.  After that incident, the party broke up. Recently he had heard that Ladron was in the area of the Lizard peoples involved in a campaign to find a powerful magic weapon, and leaving a trail of practical jokes and vanquished foes. Alain decided to head in that direction and see what his former companion was up to.

I will be there...should I bring humans?

  I wasn't bored by any means but conflicted on what I wanted to run and a few of you had mentioned who would be the fighter in the group.  I enjoyed the ranger but did not want to try something new, although being a beast ranger, might be interesting at a later time.  I had talked about a Barbarian but then thought about a straight fighter.  As I thought of their strengths and weaknesses I considered running a full on Paladin, so here is the jumble of ideas I had and the concepts I had for ideas both relating and adding to our little part of Wyverndale…

  Sunedahl Grinner (Soon-dawl Grinn ner) – If his father had been any less of a man, Sunedahl might have enjoyed the open plains, hunting great and small creatures and besting his fellow tribesmen to work his way to becoming the greatest of his tribe.  Living in the shadow of another may have been a lesser man’s path but he knew there were greater things beyond the great Sea of Grass and out beyond the great mountains to the west and east.  Skills, strength, weapons of war had become his over the years, some inherited but others acquired but the one thing that would elude him until he took it for himself was honor and respect of those other than his tribe, his people and his father.

  Many in the city of Brix talked about the wolves and dragonmen and of how the city had been saved by a politician in the past months.  Greater stories were filtering in from the west of a great evil coming out of shattered bridge and how the people were fleeing in great numbers.  Most seemed silly to him but many men who spoke to, he saw their eyes and knew the truth of their stories.  Fear and awe could not be easily created in so many without the truth being behind a great many.  He followed all the stories he could and all continued to tell of a great warrior who had been in many of the stories.  He would follow them as far as they could take him as such a warrior would be worth fighting next to, to defeat something as awful as an undead thing…what did the stories say?  A dracolich?

  Thomas Ashby’s family had groomed him for years to be strong and insightful of all those around him if he expected to do any good in the world and to better serve the people and his god.  He was taught by all in the house, from the captain of the guard, the grounds keeper to the family priests who had been a part of his life since he could remember.  Always had the family kept abreast of city affairs and now, Brix had become unstable in recent months, so much so that the family moved to their home near the countryside of shattered bridge.  There, they were told of yet a greater evil that had returned to Shattered Bridge and how chaos and anarchy had spread throughout the region.  Thomas knew at once he would do all he could to help the people of the area and to learn of those who might aid him in ending, once and for all the darkness near his homelands.

  It seemed that he was not the only person being tricked or coerced into serving as guards for the city…the young warrior noted as he watched the Halfling, human and two dwarves working as guards.  They were wrongfully sentenced for something they did not wish to be a part of despite his protests, and his being there, they still had to work.  These were skilled warriors, as he was, who could have killed many but by a simple twist of fate they earned the same fate as he did.  Perhaps fate indeed as Kord was placing before him a challenge like never before.  They spoke often he noticed in their time here, quiet but enough that he knew they searched for a weapon of great power and something about a sunken city.  He was determined to help them once he was free of his service.  Perhaps this being his last day to work was indeed fate showing him his path and maybe, if he looked for all the signs and paid attention he could do some good in this world.